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Rick Jorgensen

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Reply with quote  #16 
Paul - keep us honest!!!!!!!
thanks!!! RJ
Poppy Cummins

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Reply with quote  #17 
10,000 HOP=SCE
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Poppy=Red Shed Spey Rod Pimp http://www.redshedflyshop.com FRSCA-Founding Member How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
Wayne Dreger

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Reply with quote  #18 
Seems about right, 10,000 hours of practice equals some casting experience. Right on.
Bruce Kruk

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Reply with quote  #19 
mP=bc=mD [wink]
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Bruce Kruk
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Jim Ray

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Dreger
Seems about right, 10,000 hours of practice equals some casting experience. Right on.


I thought that SCE = Spey Casting Excellence. I guess it all depends upon how effective the 10,000 hours of practice are. Seem to remember a golf quote that paraphrased went like this: "Practice doesn't make perfect; effective practice does"

Jim

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June Kim

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Reply with quote  #21 
Practice, physics formulae. I don't know physics but practice sounds good. 
Anybody can suggest a fisherman friendly answer to why 510 grain shooting head cannot load the same number rod when it's made thinner and longer?

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Gene Larson

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Reply with quote  #22 
I think you talking about the 510 grain line being made thinner and longer, not the rod.  If so, the longer, thinner line doesn't have sufficient mass to carry the energy of the cast through the line to the tippet so it can turn over.  You must have the weight, and the taper, to drive the heavier line over the lighter line to keep it moving.  Your light, long line simply doesn't have the weight (mass) to make it happen.
June Kim

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Reply with quote  #23 
Gene, thanks! You are right. I guess I better go fishing.


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Poppy Cummins

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Reply with quote  #24 
Grains is grains whether it be 25', 55', or 70'.

As well every rod I've ever seen will load at several different grain weights. That's why you can start fishing with 10' out of the tip, then 15', then 20', ect. until "you" reach "your" maximum length for "your" ability.

Yes every rod designer has a grains number "X" where he/she decided that "X" was the perfect match but in the real world many find a different number is "X". I believe many of us a way to preoccupied with grain weights.

A very smart spey caster/rod/line designer once told me "if it's to heavy pull it in and if it's to light let it out. This method works pretty damned good.

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Poppy=Red Shed Spey Rod Pimp http://www.redshedflyshop.com FRSCA-Founding Member How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
Paul Metcalf

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Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Larson
...to drive the heavier line over the lighter line to keep it moving.

Exactly!  I should write a physics equation for that.

Oh, I guess I already did.

Only 7320 more hours to go before SCE, yippie!
Dennis Kulhanek

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Reply with quote  #26 
Energy can not be created or destroyed. However it my be transfered from one form into another but the total amount of energy never changes! Think that air drag, gravity and another elemets as form of energy. The misconception that line loading the rod is wrong. It's our body and movement provide initial energy for the cast. Scagit line have different flight kinemathics then grand Spey line .Please correct me if Iam wrong.
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Bruce Kruk

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Reply with quote  #27 
This is a pretty old argument Dennis but if you dont have a weighted line on the rod it will not bend or load like a rod with a weighted line.
With that being said as a line gets longer the taper and weight placement is far more important than the total grain weight of the line.

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Bruce Kruk
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James Timmins

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Reply with quote  #28 
I have always been troubled  with getting a good explanation as asked in the OP, and have kind of accepted the following:  A scandi vs a short, or mid belly weight.  With a scandi an extra long leader is used as an anchor, and more of the line is utilized in loading the rod then that of a short, or long belly line where some portion of the line (grains) is used in the anchor.  Therefore a longer line is required for the same load.  This may not equate to exact physics, BUT it does help me to remember longer line - more grains required for said rod.
James D Jones

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Reply with quote  #29 
The original Delta spey lines were offered in long & short versions. A 7/8 Delta long (head) weighed the same as a 7/8 Delta short. That design went by the wayside because it didn't work. Also, a long time ago, Peter-S-C posted on the Spey Pages, his synopsis of how only the upper leg of the D-loop contributes to rod load, accompanied with a nice spread sheet.

All of the above was based on the kiss & go casting technique.

When you get into sustained anchor (Skagit) technique, there are other factors involved. First off, the whole sinking tip section, rather than being part of the lower leg of the D-loop, is completely removed from the equation becoming instead, a part of the payload. The short heavy belly section, having little or no taper, is all that makes up the D-loop. Keep in mind also, that short D-loop must develop enough energy to not only extract that sink tip & heavy fly from beneath the surface of the water, but also retain energy throughout the cast with ample reserve left to turn over said sink tip & fly. Skagit heads tend to be heavy because #1 they need the mass to turn over sink tips & heavy flies, #2 the weight of the sink tip is not added to the total head weight as in other systems for the reasons given above.

Al Buhr explaines all of this, much better than I, in his little book on How to Design Fly Lines. The long & short of it though is, you can't push a Mack truck with a Ferrari.
cris caldwell

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Reply with quote  #30 
the more line you have in the air the more energy loss occurs the heavier the line the more energy loss you can sustain
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