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Eric Northway

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Reply with quote  #1 
I would like to think that I am long-suffering w/people, including myself, but the past few days of fishing convinced me that I definately fail with myself when river right, with an upstream wind, casting cack. After the "C" or Snap-T, and sweep, I hit it as hard as I am able w/the underhand (Burk 8142 w/510 Airflo Scandi), but I've no load, and no matter where the rod tip is pointed, the fly travels upstream a 1/2 mile, with an open loop shaped like an reverse "L". I wish I had a go-pro to record it, as I know my description is inadequate for analysis.

I cussed more in two days than I have in a year. Sooooooo frustrating. Anyone have thoughts on what I'm doing wrong? I couldn't figure it out.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Best,
Eric
Gary Carlson

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Reply with quote  #2 
Focus on lining up your anchor and D loop with your target to get the 180 degree alignment. Sounds like your anchor may be too far upstream causing the L shaped line and open loop on the forward cast when the anchor doesn't align the D loop to follow the target tracking. 
Just a thought......

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Eric Northway

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Reply with quote  #3 
Thanks for taking the time, Gary. I think you are correct. After messing w/it the anchor was off, and also I wasn't stopping high enough. Seems to be a little more on track now . . . but far from tight loops. Practice, practice, I guess.
Poppy Cummins

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Reply with quote  #4 
I thought of you yesterday when I was on a river right with an upstream wind. I was using a line with a 54' head so that was a little different. With my left hand up the results were much better for me then cach handed. 

I agree the anchor placement is critical. Some of it wasn't pretty but were workable. The loops will always look more open to the caster then someone viewing them from upstream or downstream.

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Poppy=Red Shed Spey Rod Pimp http://www.redshedflyshop.com FRSCA-Founding Member How you get the line out and fishing is personal preference so as long as it works and is easy no one should care but the caster. MSB
Pierre Noel

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Reply with quote  #5 
I would like to share my experience of the last time I went fishing in June. Big lift to 11 o'clock, getting as much line out of the water as possible . Turn the body to the direction you want to cast. Pull the rod with upper hand against the thump of lower hand. When you have finished the turn pull the rod with the lower hand with the index finger . This just happened all of a sudden when I was fishing. It finally clicked. I was getting nice long and accurate cast.
Hope I was of a little help.
Big lift , turn body, pull with top hand against thumb, fire line by pulling with index of lower hand. Try to keep from dipping rod in turn as this will send the line crashing to water surface. The top hand only points in the direction you want to cast , it should not be anything more than a fulcrum. What could be easier?
Gary Carlson

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Reply with quote  #6 
It is understandable that making a cast from river right with an upstream wind and placing an upstream anchor using the backwards snap/circle/T/C requiring crossing/uncrossing the arms with the wind pushing the anchor further upstream and blowing the energy out of the D loop, that this can result in a funky cast.
However, your choice of using an upstream anchor with a resultant funky cast is certainly preferable to trying for a downstream cast using a double spey or snake roll which could result in your wearing your fly and line. 
Considering the requirements for mastering the three dimensional spey cast and adapting it to the variables of required weird stance, current environment of wind, water depth and flow, available space for the D loop, etc., etc., it is amazing that we can even sometimes make a perfect cast. That's what makes it the wonderful challenge and joyful result when it happens perfectly.
At least I think so.......[idea]

Gary....

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Gary Carlson
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Rick Jorgensen

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Reply with quote  #7 
with the shorter heads, too much hand/arm motion and big lifts can really kill a cast. While I am pretty much a skagit guy, a short head is a short head, be it skagit or scandi and my upper hand on off shoulder casts does not rise above shoulder height. On the forward cast, it is important to really focus on straight line path in the direction of your target and not pull across your body

I think Gary's first post that your anchor is too far upstream is likely spot on. You should really watch the line on the water and you should see it all turn into alignment in the direction of your forward cast (Gary's comment about the 180 alignment). If the anchor is too far upstream, the tip will not pull into alignment and there will still be a portion of the tip likely angled upstream 
Eric Northway

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Reply with quote  #8 
Wow, thanks so much, fellas. This is a lot to think about, and even more to work on. But, from what I've gathered from the comments:

1) Anchor, anchor, anchor . . . and I know I know this, but it feels/looks really bizarre to me when cack. That said, I was never any good at geometry.
2) I need to learn to cast w/my left hand. A couple of other folks have suggested this too. I am not good w/my left hand, and have not been since adolescence. Practice, I guess.
3) I have never thought about, nor experienced while casting, just using the index finger. Great idea. I know that one of my major faults is that I hold upper and lower hands way, way too tightly.
4) I teach philosophy for a living, so I do not understand the concept of 'perfect'. But, I'd like a 'close to perfect' loop to shoot through the wind . . . but then again, we are all 'dust in the wind'
5 The phrase: 'turn into alignment' made a lightbulb go off in my head. I think I just flop the fly upstream w/little or no regard for alignment as it float down. I guess I've always figured, 'well, I'll just "poke it" when it isn't right', never even thinking about how a poke should line up either.

Again, thanks to all of you who commented. I hope my self-deprecating geek humor was palatable. I will, honestly, experiment with all of these suggestions. Much appreciated!

All the best,
Eric
Leo Moore

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
The loops will always look more open to the caster then someone viewing them from upstream or downstream.


I did not know that. Very interesting and actually encouraging.

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Don McFarland

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Reply with quote  #10 
Hey Eric,
Give me a call when you get back to Boise. Mike, from Dream Cast Idaho says the river adjacent to the zoo is perfect to work on your left side. God knows I need it too, so I'll join you. I'll be back in town Sept 8th.
Eric Northway

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Reply with quote  #11 
Will do, Don!
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