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Dave Green

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Reply with quote  #46 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Campbell
So you are arguing that we need hatchery fish so people can kill them?

This discussion has crystalized one thought for me personally. I don't feel like I have any right, nor does the human race have any right to do what we please with the planet. The oceans, lakes, and streams are not our aquariums to tinker with. Would that we had left well enough alone and shown some restraint in our consumptive and reproductive habits....




No,what I'm saying,or trying to say at least,is that it is partly because of legal retention that hatchery fish are presently required to satisfy the enormous angling pressure.With 100% C&R,a lot of pressure is relieved as many anglers lose interest in fishing for a species that they can't kill.That,and C&R only regs hardly make sense in a fishery where bait is permitted,so a bait ban and gear restrictions to single barbless hooks(not necesarily fly only?) could weed out even more anglers.Yes,it reeks of FF elitism,but the alternative as it is to either swing flies over hatchery fish or swing flies over rocks in many cases,the natural production of wild fish can't supply the demand of actually having enough fish in the system that anglers stand a reasonable chance of hooking one once in awhile.

I'm afraid it's a bit too late to leave well enough alone or restraint in our human reproduction,but we can still do something about our consumption.
William Olson

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Reply with quote  #47 
 I don't know what to say.  Are you under the impression that wild (and native) steelhead in the lower 48 are on the cusp of extinction?  How does adding more fish fix the carrying capacity of the habitat? 

Poppy Cummins

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Reply with quote  #48 
A bait ban and single barbless hook rules have zero to do with fly fishing.

I would like to see steelhead hatcheries go away, especially the one 6 miles from my house.  

I also think a 100% C&R steelhead fishery would be a good thing. The whole thing is about the perception that one has to take something home to be successful and have a good time. Nothing could be further from the truth and there are some steelhead guides around that prove it each and every day.

I hear a lot of guides saying their businesses will be severely impacted if their clients can't keep fish and I say that's bullshxt. Change what you're selling. It's been done for a lot of other fish species.

Many of us like to eat some fish now and then but there are plenty of other fish species to eat that one doesn't need to eat a steelhead.


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Bob Rodgers

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy Cummins


I hear a lot of guides saying their businesses will be severely impacted if their clients can't keep fish and I say that's bullshxt. Change what you're selling. It's been done for a lot of other fish species.

Many of us like to eat some fish now and then but there are plenty of other fish species to eat that one doesn't need to eat a steelhead.



The guides should be leading the charge for a release fishery. Being short sighted now could cost them their livelihood in the near future.
I humped a skiff across the Keys for years and never felt the need to club a single fish to death.
And the clients?
They kept on coming.
Bob
Dave Green

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Rodgers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy Cummins


I hear a lot of guides saying their businesses will be severely impacted if their clients can't keep fish and I say that's bullshxt. Change what you're selling. It's been done for a lot of other fish species.

Many of us like to eat some fish now and then but there are plenty of other fish species to eat that one doesn't need to eat a steelhead.



The guides should be leading the charge for a release fishery. Being short sighted now could cost them their livelihood in the near future.
I humped a skiff across the Keys for years and never felt the need to club a single fish to death.
And the clients?
They kept on coming.
Bob


I don't hear anybody complaining about not being able to club Steelhead on the Dean,Skeena,or any other northern BC wild river for that matter?Sportfishing industry is alive and well there,in fact,I recently read a report on the economic impact of sportfishing in BC,almost a BILLION $$ ($960M)annually,Skeena region alone accounted for just about 10% of that.Imagine that...a world Mecca of no-kill steelheading that draws $90M worth of angler dollars every year....go figger? [rolleyes]
Guides that claim they need to kill fish or else be out of bizness are FOS....and maybe otta be outta bizness?
And yes,agree 100%,they should be "leading the charge".Theres not much future in killing every fish landed,seems like a pretty short-sighted business plan,yes?
William Olson

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Reply with quote  #51 
Amazing what happens with wild fisheries managed for hook and release recreation vs. kill fisheries dependent on hatchery releases...
Rob Allen

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Reply with quote  #52 
That is the most  discouraging commentary  about our  sport.   World class fisheries the world over are supported by catch and release nearly all of it voluntary!!!!!  but here in the PNW   steelhead and salmon anglers are just soo greedy that they have to have freezers  full of fillets getting freezer burnt to feel  good  about their fishing.

 Tarpon fishing in Florida  would suck  if  catch and keep  was the norm.  as  would redfish  along the gulf  coast.  Heck   even  those  bubba  boys  running  around in their over-powered  sparkly bass boats  get it.  why is it  so hard  for salmon and  steelhead  anglers???   Everyone  understands  the  concept  but us..  forgive me  for being blunt  but that  in my mind makes  us, salmon and  steelhead  anglers, collectively  dumber than a box of rocks.

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Darryl Rigets

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Reply with quote  #53 
NEWS
IHN virus outbreak forces fish kill at Robertson Creek Hatchery
5


by Wawmeesh G. Hamilton - Alberni Valley News
posted Feb 5, 2014 at 6:00 PM
A virus outbreak has killed 60,000 juvenile steelhead at Robertson Creek Hatchery and prompted the involvement of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency.

Fisheries and Oceans Canada has confirmed that there was an outbreak of Infectious Haematopoietic Necrosis (IHN) virus at the Robertson Creek Hatchery.

The virus was diagnosed in January after extensive laboratory testing, said Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO) spokesperson Carrie Mishima, who only responded to questions from the News by e-mail.

The virus has infected more than 60,000 juvenile steelhead at the hatchery, which have since been destroyed, officials said.

Hatchery staff became aware of the outbreak after noticing higher than normal mortalities in juvenile steelhead. Staff noticed signs of the virus and initiated lab tests.

According to the fisheries department, IHN is a naturally occurring pathogen in wild fish throughout the Pacific West Coast from Alaska to California.

IHN poses no risk to humans but it can spread quickly and has a 100 per cent mortality rate if a fish population becomes infected.

The virus is known to exist in Great Central Lake where the hatchery draws its water supplies. Lab tests identified the virus as the endemic, naturally occurring strain that is commonly found in Pacific sockeye.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency was called because IHN is a reportable disease.

Staff have isolated the area where the infected fish were being held, and are cleaning and disinfecting the area.

Measures have also been put in place to control the movement of staff and fish in and out of the hatchery.

Cleanup will be completed when the CFIA is satisfied that the process has met their requirements.

Could be coming to a hatchery near you!



Nate Bailey

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Reply with quote  #54 
Half of the year I guide on water that is artificial lure and a 1 fish limit. I have yet had a client want to take a fish home (we strongly discourage it). Another fishery I guide on, is catch and release only. Its regs changed a few years ago, and it turned a good trout fishery into a fantastic one. On the Rogue we are allowed to keep hatchery fish, but I have yet to have had a client want to do so. My goal is to make sure the clients have fun, and secondly leave knowing that they covered the water well. If i have done both of those things, fish usually come, but if your selling the end result (fish by any means) then you lesson the journey. I say all of this to say, not all guides are trying to rape the resource, and you can see the value of hatcheries without being a bonk monger. The Rogue would have lost the majority of its run in the 1900's if it weren't for hatcheries, as there was a dam across the whole river in Grants Pass. Most of the "Wild Fish" we have now came from that gene pool  
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Darryl Rigets

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Reply with quote  #55 
Here in BC there have been programs initiated on some systems designed to enhance existing stocks. They use stream side or instream devices ie hatch boxes designed to increase egg to fry survival , conduct in stream restoration or enhancement by installing large woody debris to improve pool riffle ratio or stream side riparian planting and fencing to stop farm animals from damagining stream banks .

The objective of hatcheries is to produce catchable fish to put into systems that have depleted wild steelhead populations thereby removing pressure from the wild stocks.

The hatchery fish are meant to be caught and fishermen are encouraged to keep them.

Ideally hatchery produced steelhead return to the hatchery and do not spawn.



William Olson

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Reply with quote  #56 
Nate-

Do you have a link or report showing the genetic analysis data that the 'wild' fish are indeed from the hatchery fish (talking Grants Pass and above)? 
Darryl Rigets

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Reply with quote  #57 
Biologist Jim Adams explaines hatchery fish:



I hope it's ok to post a Vimeo link Mike, I just thought this fellows knowledge would help some understand why some of us are anti hatchery .

If it's not ok then I apologize.
Todd Hirano

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Reply with quote  #58 
Nature is the best "hatchery" there is - no man made hatchery can top it.  Wild steelhead need to be allowed to recover without having to compete with hatchery steelhead in all life phases.

Todd

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Jason Bates

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Reply with quote  #59 
Thanks for posting the video there Darryl.  I have to say though, that while interesting and supportive to those of us who are not particularly fond of hatcheries, I am not so sure that it would be particularly convincing to most.  Unfortunately it's a bit too short, and way too short on facts and data.  It came off as pretty speculative to me, although I have no doubt that he (and other biologists) do have the data to make a more solid and convincing argument... I just didn't really see it here.

Not trying to be argumentative, and I do agree with the concerns that he outlines.  Mostly I make mention because I think that we could really use something a bit more concrete and clear cut in presenting to those who are either unsure or supportive about hatchery steelhead.

One point of concern, or uncertainty for me still is the concept of just removing hatchery programs and waiting for the wild returns to grow.  I am of the opinion that we probably need to address multiple issues at the same time, and that just removing hatcheries could be harmful to wild fish populations if there were no other "successes" to go along with those removals.  Things like term habitat restoration/protection, sustainable commercial and sport fishing regulation (and enforcement), poaching, water pollution, etc etc etc.  I think that changing the mindset within the angling community to recognize the fragile and finite resources we enjoy is a huge key to succeeding in all these areas.  Part of the challenge there of course is how fractured and polarized the angling world is, it's tough to get the various interests to agree on very much.
JB
Darryl Rigets

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Reply with quote  #60 
Hi Jason,

There are a few recent studies that have been conducted on Washington and Oregon Rivers that suggest the hatchery programs may be detrimental to wild fish recovery.

One that is causing controversy now is:
http://nativefishsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/SK-Technical-Report_Final.pdf
http://nativefishsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/NOAA-SK-Admin-Report-Final.pdf

I work in the fish habitat field and regularly read papers that are related to my field of work to keep up with the most recent availble information. Professional certification organizations such as CAB and APB require their membership to continue professional development in their related fields.

Most RP Bios don't speak of issues or draw conclusions without scientific evidence to backup their statements.

I think all of your concerns are valid but I do believe that nocomplience issues and poaching are a problem whether hatchery fish are in a system or not.
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